Margaret Friar, WikiTree

TL;DR -- We are taking a closer look at Margaret's family. 

---

Note (02/02/2025): Added the OpEd category. See posts from Feb of 2023 with regard to new information and plans for altering the database and site. 

---

In this title, we used Friar as that is how it is written in Sherborne, Dorset, England records. Other spellings have been Fryer and Frier. In the below, we describe why we can identify the parents of Margaret Friar, wife of Thomas Gardner, as Walter Friar and Grace Mullins. Also, there is a current effort to learn more about Margaret's family. 

This post is along the line of  a relook at Margaret that we did a couple of years ago. This time, we are going to identify some specifics that have been collected on WikiTree in order to update Margaret's Profile there. A Great Migration project has been working to ensure that Profiles match up with the NEHGS book series (by R. C. Anderson), including recently determined material which are listed below. 

Friar records

This list is part of an effort to support coordination and discussion (Editing Margaret's past) while the changes are being done. As a reminder, in his profile of Thomas Gardner, Anderson had three wives with the first one (Unknown) being the mother of the children, a second one named Margaret Unknown there briefly, as Demaris was the last wife. What work of supporters of Gardner Research have shown is that there were two wives with Margaret being the first and the mother of the children. 

There will be more updates with respect to this work as simultaneously we are updating Thomas' profile  (Coordinating coming edits of the Thomas Gardner page) so as to have a good one going forward that is acceptable.  

There are a few things that motivate this change, beyond the necessity to close up the deal. These are listed below. The notice of the Thomas and Margaret marriage record was written in 2014. At the same time, some of the other records were noted. Since then, there has been a lot more scrutiny and discussion which was under the auspices of WikiTree. So we have records from which to report on the activity over these few years.  

• we have a marriage of a Thomas Gardner and a Margaret Friar (appropriate timeframe - Felt was the furthest back printed source that we saw)
• before that, we have a birth of a Margaret Friar, same area
• then, we have a Will of a Walter Friar mentioning his daughter Margaret (before the marriage), too, he mentions his son Thomas - there is a daughter Grace - is the wife mentioned? if not, did she die?
• then, we have a marriage of a Walter Friar and a Grace Mullins, same area, appropriate timeframe
• then, coming this way, we have births of boys (Thomas, George, Richard, John) with a father of Thomas Gardner.
• later, the family is not in the records
• then, we see that Savage has a Thomas Frier/Friar as a brother, "perhaps", of Margaret, wife of Thomas Gardner.

There's more. And, we are actively reviewing records in order to identify the births of Walter and Grace. 

Remarks: Modified: 02/02/2025

10/31/2020 -- Added images for our portal. 

02/02/2025 -- Updated with new information about Thomas and Margaret and their family with respect to Seth being born here. The others kids not. Was Thomas here more than once? 

Filters, and their use

TL;DR -- Again, learning from Lucie and DAR.  

---

Earlier, we looked at an approach to working pedigrees back 400 years, briefly, and titled a post - Middle and out. This will all be discussed further, but everything of note has a top and bottom. Implied is a middle. Why? We talk top-down for those things from that position. Ever heard of an executive being operationally effective? And, from the bottom, we find the detail orientation. Does the top care of this? Or even have the ability to know? 

So, we tread that water going as high as anyone wants and as low as is possible (and be sane ;>). Take science. One might say that theory is top-down. Yes. Data, experimenting, et al are bottom-up affairs. Same goes for any discipline, including genealogy. And, we think that the 'lead feet' observation really denotes lack of appreciation of the applied aspects (even mathematics has this). So, to cut this short as it'll be addressed time and again, we look at how 'filters' come into play. 

Aside: some wag might use 'colored glasses' or some other label related to interpretation. We say hermeneutics gets too much short shrift. Okay?  

We have started our look at descendants of Thomas and Margaret (Friar) Gardner. This work will focus on the progeny of each child and will report through various media and schemes. For some, we will use WikiTree if there are collateral families that have already done work. We have been creating profiles, as needed, but that is not necessary. Actually, it might bog down the work since text files would be sufficient, though we will consider a few other formats. 

Aside: On Margaret, a family in Sherborne, Dorset, England has our attention as being Margaret's, for several reasons. So, they used Friar. Felt used Fryer. Some have used Frier. So, we'll use any and all; however, right now, we'll go with what the Brits wrote over 400 years ago. 

The key is that we need sources specified from which we can grade the information. The rating will go from verified to speculative with the latter not being shunned. Rather, we want to fill in the first five generations completely and work down to around 1900. Hopefully, we would have mostly strong referencing done, but we will not shy from using modern techniques, that are sound.

Somewhat, DAR provides examples. It has been at this for over 100 years and has an on-line database. A recent post looks at “Middle out” where information is available. And, we can confirm that this information was provided with source references. We also know that the process will mark information needing attention, rather than throw it out. 

So, take a line, such as that of Dr. Frank’s sister, Lucie M. Gardner (public search is available). Her record stops at the 2nd great-grandson of Thomas and Margaret through their son, Samuel who is #6 in Dr. Frank’s 1907 book. This Patriot's name is Simon Stacey Gardner. His line goes (Thomas, Samuel, Abel, Abel, Simon Stacey, ..., then, we have Jonathan, Benjamin Brown, Stephen Wilson --- all Gardners, with the last one being Lucie's father). So, taking that example, someone wanting to show their pedigree to T&M would only need to reference that database node and how they relate to it. Lucie and Dr. Frank had no other siblings. Lucie had no offspring, but Dr. Frank did. However, for cousins of those two, there are many not in this database. We'll take one or two as an example and see how this might go. 

Relate? Yes, if some member of the organization has a sister who has not been identified through an application or a brother, then one would merely need to show that relationship (of the siblings). It would be that easy. Now, the database might have 7M persons, however there are lots of holes. Take the Massachusetts listing of sailors and soldiers. It is 17 volumes. Many of these people are not known to these types of organizations which has provisions to prove new Patriots. Ann herself has a slew of Patriots not in the database; yes, there are some who have had applications under their name. Rather than go through that process, we might use the method that we're experimenting with to have some  minimal representation so that people can fill in their lines. Even the WikiTree Profile seems excessive. We'll have to see. 

Aside: we'll not get to where everyone is in one database. It's like everyone in the same country or at the same point on earth (like the U.S.). We can, though, think of interchange mechanisms that would help. And, what genealogists do is not what I'm thinking. Actually, we'll use Julia to prototype something akin (or, let's say, inspired by) the semantic web team's effort.  

Besides descendants of T&M, we have an interest in all of the families that were at Cape Ann when T&M were there (arrival 1623/24). We already know some of the persons and their families. For instance, T&M's daughter Sarah married John Balch who came with his wife with the Cape Ann crew (according to some, same boat). There may have been (is) some disagreement about who was actually there, but we’ll be inclusive for now in the interest of helping research go forward. 

Another motivation is that the 400th anniversary of the arrival is coming up whether 1623 or 1624. Despite that, as we see with the Great Migration Project, there were entrants by the ton until around 1640. We can attest that we see lots and lots of people not covered in WikiTree, hence the decision to not use that as a funnel. 

Good old HTML can work once we set up the format, for a while (see Julia mentions that will be cropping up - just determined this due to watching a mathematical physics team use it successfully for non-trivial computing). In time, we will settle on a technical approach for the future. Lots of options exist including doing our own with links to the other resources. That is, a type of overlay from TGS via some service would be where TGS provides an independent access (see colored glasses, above).  

Now, back to filters. There are several example such as those involved with the Revolution. The Mayflower society will be another, though their records are in digitized book form. There are a few others related to New England, however we need to look further as people dropped off at Barbados, for instance, and went to several locations along the eastern coast of the US. Of course, Virginia needs attention. Nathaniel Eaton is an example of this. Who? First head of Harvard who was completely misunderstood. 

Too, though, we need to look at Loyalists who are of the period the the Patriots. We have started a list of those. 

Oh yes, in 2014, we had a discussion under the auspices of the Hereditary Society Community about a database for the first four generations. That is, from the applicant back. Too much personal data gets copied and scattered about. We only need one source that has the proper configuration. We were thinking that the far-out view was too political. Well, not. Taking some point, like 1620 to 1640 (think the NEHGS Great Migration Project), we could provide a good database that covers a couple of generations each way. GMP had a span of two generations (one on each side). Whatever. We have plenty to do, otherwise. Yet this thinking is to help us understand what services are being ignored; there is where you will find us. 

Remarks: Modified: 11/10/2020

10/31/2020 -- Add image for our portal. Generalize the verbiage. 

Gardner's Beacon, Vol X, No 1

This issue of Gardner's Beacon provides some details about Thomas Gardner and Margaret Friar that are available via the digitization and indexing of records at Sherborne, Dorset, England. Also, we look at recent experiences as an influence on our thinking of how to handle membership, especially proof of lineage. Besides, DAR ought to be quite prominent, as many from New England's early start will have offspring who were either Patriots or Loyalists. We look at both. Then, we remind ourselves of the other families at Cape Ann. It's time that someone did a review of those folks. 

Finally, we feature a look at Richard Crowninshield Derby who died at Antietam and left no offspring. We have a collection of those not to be forgotten, starting with Joseph Gardner who married Ann Downing. 

GB X, 1 (PDF w/links)

---

See Vol. X, No. 1 of Gardner's Beacon for ... Sources.

Remarks: Modified: 11/28/2021

11/29/2021 -- Added links to the PDF for more full information presentation. 

The Young Captain

TL;DR -- Our young cousin and his memoir.  

---

As we get the latest issue of Gardner's Beacon (X,1) together, we were writing up a little bit of the life of Richard Crowninshield Derby who was mentioned in the post Descendants of Samuel. We picked him as an example of the frontier experience that needs a lot of research and discussion. Many who went west have been dissed, say Chloe Porter (No brick wall), for whom we are doing a 'analysis' ala the mode that DAR uses when some type of reasoning needs to be applied (versus rote types of checking).

DAR -- Richard (WikiTree) - his father (John Derby), his grandfather (Patriot: Elias Hasket Darby). 

In short, Richard, born 1834, was talented and went to college, but his studies were interrupted by sickness. He went west (not quite like Teddy but close enough) on the northern side (WI, MN). When the Civil War started, he got a commission. He was killed at Antietam, on 17 Sep 1862, which is in MD and which was a battle before Gettysburg. Of note is that Harper's Ferry where John Brown was hung is in that area.  

Then, we find out just now that Capt. Richard's diary, with a bio, was published in 1865. It was titled, The Young Captain. We barely skimmed the book and will be looking for other references about Richard, however, the frontier theme was before and after the Civil War. 

Richard is an example of an illustrious family keeping track of their offspring. Some of the experiences that we will detail further went further south from New England (think, diagonal southwest line from the northeast). Some were already in the southern areas and went west. Those families met and merged. Lots of stories to be told and studies to be done. 

Remarks: Modified: 11/10/2020

10/28/2020 --

Middle and out

TL;DR -- Lucie and DAR tells us a lot.  

---

Our lives have two views that are archetypal, up and down. The wag might say, well, there's around, like the clock. That is true. But, we are going to look, for now, at lineage in relation to people who have helped the U.S. get to where it is. We can use DAR for establishing some mileposts as lineage moved along. Basically, we have a tree with up and down. We are all looking at the 250th coming up based upon 1776. We are interested from there back to the early 1600s and before. 

Actually, we will look this way, too; but, that brings in the around, namely, spanning across trees. One benefit of the modern modeling modes, using the computer, facilities like that of ancestry[.]com can give you these little shaking leaves. Early on, we learned that a lot of those are bosh. And, until some method gets established for common proof schemes, there will be issues. So, table that, for now, as we look to link from the Revolution back to the beginning. 

Take their database, as a start. At this page (genealogy), one can get to a search option on their database. Now, this is open with general information about the persons noted. To get more specific, one has an option to purchase a copy of a record. We are not looking at anything other than the bare necessities provided by the default display, right now, so let's use an example. Lucie M Gardner, Dr. Frank's sister, is a member (can be retrieved publicly) with Simon Stacey Gardner (available off of Lucie's record) as her Patriot. Now, let's look at Simon, first. What you see is some detail about Simon such as his wife (Rebecca Knapp) and children, albeit only the ones for which there have been applications are listed. The database can provide a record copy for each of these that can be purchased that will provide more information. Sometimes, that would include all of the children and their spouses. 

So, let's look at Lucie, next by picking her number. She was the first application for Simon and through his son, Jonathan. Now, if you scroll though the lineage (Lucie's lineage), between Lucie and Simon Stacey Gardner are her father (Stephen Wilson Gardner), grandfather (Benjamin Brown Gardner) and great-grandfather (Jonathan Gardner). There are dates and places, usually, provided by the lineage report. 

Aside 1: This information has been scrutinized quite a bit. One can read about the application process (see above node) and get an idea. However, after more than 100 years of honing the process, the databaser has good data. 

Aside 2: We have been working to document Benjamin B Gardner back to Thomas and all of his other ancestors on WikiTree (Gardner-5912). Between Benjamin and Thomas, we find Jonathan, Simon Stacey, Abel, and Abel. For some of the other family members, we have added them (see the Ahnentafel - handcrafted). But, there is a lot more work to do.  

A couple of years ago, we used Dr. Frank's handwritten notes to update his lineage on WikiTree. His father's lineage is the same as Ann's grandfather's Gardner line. What we did independently, starting in 2010, with nothing other than the 1907 book, filled in Ann's whole tree. This work agreed with Dr. Frank's work done 100 years before (that we did not have), except we had a lot more information. In the good Dr.'s day, there was no Xerox as we see now and no web (it required searching through physical files). In his notes, Dr. Frank had included the lineage of his mother, Marion Wallace Woods, which compared well to work that had been done on WikiTree. 

Before going on, one might pause and look at the state of the information. The data record for Lucie would be fairly sparse, and we will look to see if we can provide more information. Coming forward 100 years, though, later applications filled in the information further. 

Aside 3: If you look at Lucie's lineage (#82537) and some of the later ones, you will see the benefit of the process which improves the data as time goes on. The newer applications might have those  earlier and later generations further documented. And, those improvements would have been collected through other applications that happened during the 100 year period. 

As there can be other family members who are Patriots, the organization encourages members to do supplementals. Now, from that, one can talk about span (see above, archetypal) as future applicants would have more information to leverage. But, this is a work in process. 

Aside 4: BTW, Ann has done and assisted with ten successful supplementals this past summer. It is from that experience that we can tout that the database has good data. Also, we can mention that in one case there were no documents at all added to the application; basically, the application was done by matching up nodes from the database. As far as we know, there is no other organization that has accomplished what we see. That is, verified data being used rather than adhoc collections. 

Aside 5: As you look at the database, you might see comments in red which indicate that some problem has been found with an application. Ann had a chance to handle a couple of those, to boot.

Aside 6: Since we are dealing with generations going back and looking at both genders being descendants, there would be added complications. Some worry about those types of lines, to wit the Mayflower Society 5th generation books that carried lineages from 1620 through five generations. These have been digitized and are available at the NEHGS. Coming forward, we have a different concern. Ann has done several dozen applications for herself, family, and friends. In some cases, the same information has been sent (personal data being handled how?) whereas one could easily conceive of a database that would certify using once proven data. Most of these groups tout that they do not trust others and require their own thing. As does DAR, incidentally. So, we argue that such an attitude is actually quite limiting. The 100+ years of experience helps demonstrate some of the needed capability. A few years ago, we proposed this discussion under the auspices of the Hereditary Society Community and got some interest. Also, we heard the arguments (no one talked the technical issues which are there and real; no, the objections were of the habitual nature, if you look closely - not-invented-here). We'll continue to pursue the discussion.   

So, we're interested in a middle-out approach which we can describe and defend, as needed. But, for now, we're looking back. The forward look will only come from an new view, say another Thomas descendant whose tie to Thomas we need to assess. But, on looking back, there are lots and lots of people who are not members. Usually, they have to assess (then prove) their heritage, to the Revolution. 

We are interested in how many Patriots are missing. That is, just using the Massachusetts book, one can see that it's huge compared to who's been used to establish membership. And, in the work with supplementals, Ann has shown new children for an existing Patriot plus a new Patriot. Again, this type of thing is an ongoing work. 

So, Patriot? We need to look at DAR's definition. We have seen Loyalists of various types. After all, that whole time before 1776 was of the King or Queen (several). Notice that link uses plus or minus. Right now, we're looking back. Coming forward, we are going to go deeply into the frontier. Why? It's been botched, somewhat. Lots to discuss. 

Remarks: Modified: 11/10/2020

10/31/2020 -- Shift focus a little to be general. 

Descendants, finally

TL;DR -- This post discusses upcoming work that will continue to extend our efforts. See the Descendants page for related information that will be kept up to date as we go along. 

---

Our first posts on this subject looked the kids: The kids; Two generations; The progeny; More progeny. These were all in fall of 2010, our first year. 

We started looking a progeny in 2009 and published on Wikipedia starting in January of 2010. The first persons mentioned were Augustus Peabody Gardner and John Lowell Gardner, as they were both in Dr. Frank's books (mentioned in 1907 and featured in the 1933) and had pages on Wikipedia. We can see the pages from those early times due to Wikipedia's very professional change tracking.  

This is a link shows the first draft of the page (January 10, 2010) which has gone through a long series of revisions since then and has a stack of pending edits waiting to be done. Such as, Wikipedia does not see Dr. Frank's book as a proper reference source. So, we are slowly working to remove that failing. Remember, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. 

Within a couple of weeks of that start, we had created some sections to categorize various descendants. Overall, we found good sources but have removed some people. One example was General Worth for whom Fort Worth, TX is named. His mother was the second wife. The categories on the Wikipedia page for Thomas Gardner (Planter) were the following:

• American patriots (and military) - this section was motivated in part by DAR which has a focus on the Revolution and its supporters. We will be using their database, when we can, by pointing to lineage information. Topical material will be handled various ways, including publications as well as posts. 
• Business - the Nantucket families are associated with several businesses (Folgers, Macy's, Coleman, Stratton). 
• Academic/science/arts - there are many illustrious folks who are in this list.       
• Degrees of separation - this was done before knowing about the facilities of the genealogical databases. See Dr. Frank links that show the capability. 

These have now been brought over to a post for each child where we will start to fill in the tree: Thomas, George, Richard, John, Sarah (Gardner) Balch,Samuel, **, Miriam (Gardner) Hill, Seeth (Gardner) Grafton  ** Joseph (had no descendants). 

Now, with respect to how we can work the details, there have been many who have researched their families. Lots of different alternatives are available for this type of work, and the material is across lots of frameworks. We might ask for a summary which then points to details. Say, some ancestry tree's nodes being written out (link targets would need to be publicly readable). One goal is to find holes where we can focus research. 

Remarks: Modified: 11/10/2020

10/27/2020 -- We will be helping to update the Thomas Gardner profile on WikiTree. 

Thomas and Margaret

TL;DR -- We look further at Sherborne, Dorset, UK.

---

When we started, the Great Migration books (Anderson) had already introduced another wife for Thomas, making it three in total. The first one, mother of the children was Unknown. Then, there was Margaret, supposedly married here. And, finally, Demaris about whom we knew. 

Now, as we looked at things, Dr. Frank's writing of two wives made since as it did to Moriarity (of the American Genealogist) and others. So, we took to using Margaret as Thomas' wife. 

In 2014, John Cook showed us copies of records out of Sherborne, Dorset, UK. Those can be summarized as follows in terms of what information that they provide us: Walter Friar marrying Grace Mullins; birth of a daughter, Margaret; Walter's will (prior to the marriage of Margaret and Thomas) which named his daughter, Margaret; Thomas Gardner marrying Margaret Friar; birth of boys in the order that we expected. Then, the records go silent which can be taken as a sign of the family leaving the area. 

In 2018, we finally got around to presenting this material on WikiTree (Gardner-159). Prior to that, we only had made references. We collected what we had found out about Margaret. Also, we updated the tree after obtaining Dr. Frank's handwritten notes on his heritage: the Gardner side agreed with what we had; his mother's side agreed with work having been done on WikiTree.   

After some discussion on WikiTree, in 2019, it was decided to change the Profile of Thomas and Margaret to agree with Dr. Frank and our research. The TGS, Inc. is leading the way in the edits. 

As well, though, it was suggested to submit an article in the NEHGR (see about their 175th) on this regard to set the record straight. That is on the list of tasks for us to accomplish. 

And, finally, we are starting an effort to fill in the tree for Thomas and Margaret using WikiTree. Some work has already be done, but Samuel is a good example. Only two of his children have been added to the tree. One of those comes down to Dr. Frank. 

There is a lot more information, but this post is to announce that we will use the Pages method to handle the work to identify descendants of the children. For now, see the list of our first post for each child. Coming soon will be a review of methods done by several where we point to our requirements to establish a descendants relationship from Thomas and Margaret. 

Remarks: Modified: 11/10/2020

10/24/2020 --