Welsh poems

TL;DR -- After a long list of caveats which are not complete, we push a link to Dave T Gardner's post on Welsh poems that are pertinent to his work on Gardiner history. Our interest deals with the topic of "All things Gardner" and the emergence of a vogue of advance software that needs attention.  

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Caveats, first (this is without links; but everything mentioned here has been covered, at least for starters; I'll get back and put in links. In the below, I'll use LLM to refer to the systems to be described further with respect to the pros and cons.): 

• Prolog: This work of David T Gardner is being enabled via computation which is effective when done right. Can we say that yet? Well, we don't have to wait as the work has decades behind it. What's new is that this thing that everyone else calls AI (and I call it AIn't, for various reasons) allows years of effort that accumulated progressive means to culminate in potential that we dreamed of. DTG has given himself a couple of years to establish provenance in a manner that bears scrutiny. We'll help him do that. In the meantime, read this as you would an overview that borders upon truth yet it is not a mere reach of the imagination. The following is John's take on the matter. 
• 1 --- there ain't no critter in the computer in terms of something that Ma Nature dreamt up or that is there latently and has been waiting to emerge. As in, Musk joked of summoning the demons which bears on metaphysics (more below). But, we can describe this phenomenon to a large extent now that there are many examples (from ChatGPT to Gemini to others) to observe, test, measure, and whatever. Good old science is the key here, and it will be beyond physics. 
• 2 --- we are witnessing computational prowess of an unprecented nature with regard to size and extent. Yet, we knew all of this stuff before, either individually or collectively. In most cases, the tone and meaning of things changed as one would expect. But, language alterings that happend dynamically do not offer that new species of life will emerge. 
• 3 --- hence, we have to get used to mathematics. Now, we can use the computer to do this. Need to. And, one example is Wolfram's Mathematica system which has brought in GenAI/LLM as a service (not all, but a good representative set). As we go through the steps to validate DTG's work, we will learn new things and require that models change. That's okay. 
• 4 --- model-based reasoning is old hat, now, almost as old as computing itself. What, you might ask? Well, one of the prime modes for modeling is from the '50s and coincides with the AI emergence out of efforts of mathematicians at a Dartmouth meeting and after. Lisp is what I am referring to and is my preferred language, albeit we ought to have kept the Lisp machine to help balance the quant mode of the Nvidias and other of the world caught in that illusion. 
• 5 --- quantum to be brought up with respect to #4? Okay, that's fair game. People are quantum processors and have been from the getgo. Wait, teleology? Yes, I must mention that psychology and philosophy are to be brought into the discussion. Expect more on this. It's already there (I've been at this for decades). So table this til later. 
• 6 --- as I need to mention KBE which I worked in after starting in KBS. There is not anything new now. We looked at this stuff decades ago. What has changed is what people refer to as the effects of handling "scale". I say that a lot of it is crap and do so with affection for all things computing since the facilities will help us be better humans. Local? Some here that mentioned now. Well, I have said that all along. 
• 7 --- truth engineering has been in the wings for decades and now can be discussed in a context that grounds the work and evaluation techniques. Before, it was a piece of my brain as conditioned with decades of Lisp starting before the Lisp machine but have years in that environment. And, truth is a local deal. Truth is not about power. What is truth? It's funny, Gemini has had discussions with me on this matter and never barfed. Mostly, I have traces. 
• 8 --- but, there is no anthropomorphizing intended here; mainly, I'll address these GenAI/LLMs and whatever else crops up with labels. So, Claude has already been used all over the place in reference to that system. DTG used Grok (earlier this year; got burned; stopped; discussed; and we restarted with provenance as the focus). 
• 9 --- lots more will be added, but here's the gist of the post. 
• 10 --- ...  

Today, DTG put out some poems that he found and that were written in Welsh. The LLM was helpful in getting the digitized versions translated after it provided support for the OCR step. That's a brief comment. The point is that there is a large amount of stuff to look at. This seemed appealing for many reasons, not the least of which is that it's poetry. By people. 

 Welsh Poems That Describe the Battle of Bosworth

There will be more commentary, both on the content of the study and on the technological issues. Hopefully, we can bring computationalism into line with what is required for progress as a whole. Some of that might be the subject of psychology and philosophy. We'll start with Kant's Prolgeomena which he wrote after getting incongruent criticism after he published his Critique of Pure Reason. 

Remarks: Modified: 01/03/2026

12/18/2025 -- With respect to the poems, consider them as not verified for the time being. With respect to AIn't in any use, all bets are off without more work related to equilibrium, stability, maturity of presentation, and such other things that we associate with people. Sorry, folks, for bringing the message -- remember, this is a crucial time with respect to technology, especially computing. 

01/03/2026 -- Changed the URL for King Slayer's Court. 

King Slayer's Court, I

TL;DR -- King Slayer? That's a huge no-no rule, broken in both England and France. But, on the battlefield, is it allowed? This post looks at research of several decades that has been facilitated recently, in new ways, by computing done right (for the most part - until buckets'o'bits ran amok). 

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We will have a regular series on the King Slayer's Court blog as work continues on that research. The following has links to recent material and other material provided for background and discussion. 

• About - a Gardner family of PA, before and after the venture across the pond. 
• Bosworth - what Ricard III knocked off his throne by a Welshman? Thoughts about the data and more. 

Social media, Generative Artificial Intelligence (GenAI/LLM) and this work. There is a lot more to discuss, but these two post bring attention to the situational aspects. 

•  Eyes of technology - we could use lens, as well; but, we are emphasizing the organic granularity and gauges of knowledge. 
• King Slayer's Court, Redux - here, we touch upon some of the technical aspects that will be expanded upon through time and as the need to know grows. 

(BBC London) A 16th Century
Welsh chronicle charting the history of
England and Wales between
1066 and 1552 is now online

Background. We wrote of this blog earlier in the year. But, we had our first interchange back in the day with our first post in 2016. 

• Introduction - In our searches from 2009 on, we ran into Wyllyam Garydnyr several times, including on Wikipedia. Lots of those pages/sites have disappeared, though we have some posts that we will go back and review and add here. 

We published an ariticle on this in The Gardner Annals (Bosworth and Gardners, Vol III). 

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Adage, moral proposed for the TGS, Inc: there AIn't no critter involved with the buckets'o'bits that people are chasing seemingly mindlessly. That is, phenomena are involved that we can know more; lots of it involves mathematics that got too big for its britches. 

Aside: we had an image link (it disappeard - so, that might represent getting some notice, or not; we will try to find something suitable). 

Remarks: Modified: 10/29/2025

10/29/2025 --

May Day, 2025

TL;DR -- The first day of May is about 1/2 way down the path to summer from spring. Our interest orginally was Hawthorne's look at Merry Mount and its maypole. But, the 400ths became a reality and diverted attention. So, we will get the theme/meme back in operation. 

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The first day of May is about 1/2 way down the path of spring toward summer. In that sense, it's like the Ground Hog day of February which gives some relief to winter. This year, there was a brief pause between major winter storm systems. Now, we're in the pause before the summer's heat and its storms. 

If one searches on "maypole"in this blog, several posts come up. Early on in our work, we were researching cousin Hawthorne and found out about Merry Mount and Endicotts distaste for the "hippy" environment in that area. So, we thought that the U.S. could claim to have been involved in hedonism from early on, or something like that. 

Harthorne wrote of the incident which we feature here. 

•  The Maypole that infuriated the puritans

 

By 2016, we had made progress in some areas and did a post on this May 1st while pointing to work on the Bosworth research which came back into focus this past month. This might become a regular topic.

In 2023 on Memorial Day, we did a post that pointed to earlier posts as Memorial Day's focus is right down our alley. Since then, we have had a post every year and will do so this year. In 2023, we went back and sampled a one post from each May back to the beginning. 

That might be a good theme/meme to use by quarter so as to pull old posts back into scope.

We figured that we could include Merrymount with Quincy which is a mere five miles from Weymouth which had its 400th in 2022. Other settlements in that area are expected within the next few years with their tales. 

Things associated with May 1:

• May Day 
• International Worker Day 
• Lei Day (Hawaii) 
• ...

Given the emphasis lately via the hyped look at GenAI/LLM, we might want to get back to realizing what human workers have done over the eons and, of late, the centuries. 

Though, this theme/meme might have four pieces. We mentioned 2/2 as well as 5/1. To be complete, 8/1 and 11/1 need some attention. We will look at that. 

Remarks: Modified: 05/01/2025

05/01/2025 -- 

King Slayer's Court, redux

TL;DR -- Bosworth and Gardner came up after we had looked at a Welsh family who had purportedly been involved in the battle. We assisted getting the information published in a blog, Gardner's Beacon, and The Gardner Annals. Recently, new information is available which is potentially remarkable in both its content and in its history. In other words, King Slayer's Court has been updated. 

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Back in the prior decade, we looked at All Things Gardner as we heard from many families and tried to make sense of all of the data. As we worked, we tried to lay down data to serve as milestones and even guideposts, eventually. 

David T. Gardner contacted us about his research on Bosworth. We helped him get organized (31 Dec 2017) for posting to his blog:

• 
  King Slayer's Court (Top 10 Finds) (05/10/2025 - missing URLs removed - search at King Slayer's Court) -- This site has been updated recently to catch up with information flow from research, see "Top 10 Finds To Date: April 15th 2025". The stories about Wyllyam Gardynyr have been within David's family for generations. He took advantage of the emerging technology to dive deeper. The find of Richard III"s body was a boon since it brought attention to the importance of Bosworth as well introduced data that science could help interpret. Richard III was re-interned with ceremony fitting a King. In the meantime, there have been publications about Gardiners and the Tudors. For instance, Douglas Richardson had ventured into the area. I talked to him briefly about the work with David. He was interested. ...

The emergence of what became known as GenAI/LLM occurred in November of 2022. Since then, the world has coped with the introduction and all of the ramifications that are huge. We have paid close attention and see that 2025 has created a split: believer (many are using the technology in daily business - the jury is still out (I say, expect some surprises that were predictable); sceptic (many have reactions that might not be balanced). 

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Where we stand? Having been involved with advanced computing throughout John's career, he reminds us that the introduction of this new technology was not considered (lengthy discussion). Too, this stuff, at its basis, is emergent from buckets of bits from which we ought not expect intelligence to display itself (that discussion will continue). So, he is not sceptical so much, as cautious, given his experience plus having been trained in the culture (Greco-Roman - classical) that fostered the development of science. One thing that seems to have been introduced along with the scientific ability? Marketing and creative writing took upon themselves the abilities enabled by technology in order to introduce newer, and more powerful, techniques. We have not recovered from that. And, must for a sustainable economy, with computing and technology as important players. That is, there is no fair balance establish between the top-down view of marketing and that necessary bottom-up one of engineering/science. 

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David reports that he found that Grok (of xAI) allowed image processing which brought up several things formerly missed. OCR is one of the capabilities. It helped determine that a "C" rather a "G" got a lot of data miscategorized. Other means, or reaons, for the material having been ignored need discussion, too. 

After opening that door, Grok was "prompted" to pursue various avenues and report then. Right now, this activity has generated a lot of output which needs to be scrutinized.

The "10 Finds" (above) is an example of some coming overviews which will allow discussion while data gathering and research run along. For us, we will review the activity to date and determine how to proceed. 

This is one type of area that we want to use an "AI" for as well as looking at the multiple layers of code involved with any computational event. These are wide-open areas of research requiring strict scrutiny. 

At the same time, as things go toward the more creative (and there are many reasons that this might be acceptable), we would wish that the GenAI/LLM (or other tool) involved in such activities be identified. Some are calling for all artificial output to be watermarked some way. 

As said, this is a totally new area. 

Remarks: Modified: 01/03/2026

05/10/2025 -- URLs disappeared; removed pointers.  

05/11/2025 -- New work starting; created a Bosworth label. 

05/27/2025 -- David T Gardner discovered that GenAI/LLM led him astray. We will let him tell the tale. Essentially, David's work over the decades has resulted in several documents that suggest more work needs to be done. But, the notions related to his theme of Gardynyr killing Richard III have some merit. That work will continue. The confabulations from technology are another matter that have our interest. 

01/03/2026 -- We will be updating the status of this work. For now, here are some posts: Welsh poems; Sir Christopher Gardiner; King Slayer's Court I; ... A new science?; ..., 

A trillion cuts by GenAI

TL;DR -- We saw a Chrome report which featured Gemini with respect to Gardner KS and its role in the trails west, one of which was the Oregon Trail. And, the report was not right. "Who cares?" has been my response to having Gemini spout off. I ignored it like I am very good at doing with ads. But, today, I read and saw errors. Okay. What to do? There is no method now. People are training these things. I say, you will not train out the crap. Okay. I wrote this post as an intro and was going to snap the Gemini report and mark it like a teacher would do an exercise. Oh, Gemini, my sweets, you left without telling me. What?  

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Our purposes are several. An important one we have named as All Things Gardner. There are lots of families with the name Gardner. "What's in a name?", we asked once: Amelia Earhart. 

We have been at this genealogy and history work since 2010, learning as we go. On the other hand, we have decades of advanced computing experience under our belt (mainly, situations requiring precision). So, our work here has been largely abetted by computing which has changed in so many ways in the past 20 years (2 decades of decline in some areas). 

We have striven to be correct as to former work. But, we know that is not sufficient. Technology has aided in the digitizing of old records which have been analyzed via human effort and mechanical means such as OCR. A case in point is that we do not know the origins of Thomas Gardner about whose progeny we know a lot due to records over the past 400 years. So, that is an issue to resolve. 

As we work the solution, we have adopted a category: OpEd (category). That will be used to label any of the former posts that touch upon the subject. The information will not be entirely wrong. So, when we figure out the corrections we will make them. Until then, someone can still follow our approach and analysis as we looked at new material. 

Aside: the genealogy crowd split Thomas Gardner into two guys, one who was at Cape Ann with the Dorchester Company and one who is the ancestor of a whole lot of folks. Myself? I think that they are the same guy or were father and son. Both of those alternatives have some basis. The intent will be to find the truth: A Thomas here and a Thomas there. 

And, we would like technology to be of assistance. And, it can. See Bosworth and Gardner, with new revelations coming about of late through use of the facilities of Grok. How well this will stand up though remains to be determined. The battle settled the 100-year war (some use, War of the Roses - I say, cousin war - needless bickering). 

Anyway, this post will look at Gemini which we have liked. But, it is now on the top of a search report. And, I was trying to look at Gardner, KS being right this minute not far from that place. We have had many posts on the little town which we have buzzed by on I35 for countless times. 

• Independence and Kansas City - this post reported on a recent talk about the trails that split at Gardner KS. For more information, see this search on Gardner KS. 

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Now, that was an intro. Here is the gist of the post. This image was snapped from a Chrome query today. ... Wait, did not snap the earlier search. Now, Gemini has disappeared from its featured position. 

Inserted as placeholder 4/11/25 0457 AM CDT

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Note (04/11/25 0458 AM CDT): the absence stopped the flow. "How to handle?" was the question. The following text is from the post from last night. The image was to show what Chrome was presenting. 

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Actually, earlier, when I read the Gemini summary, I scrolled and found this first on the list which is from the National Park Service. Gardner was a stop on the earlier Santa Fe trail which was largely commercial going from St. Louis as the gateway to New Spain. 

That trail passed through Independence MO. So, Oregon traffic followed that same route to Gardner and then turned to the north and west going by Lawrence KS which is the site of the University of Kansas which was founded by a group of New Englanders who came out, including women, by that same trail through Gardner KS.

Later, young bucks in a hurry figured that they could take the Missouri River north from Independence past St. Joseph MO into Nebraska and head west from there. Guess what? They eventually met up with the travelers who had come up through Gardner. What did the folks in a hurry gain? Maybe, two days, perhaps a little more. 

But, gold gets the blood boiling. Like? Things easily hyped. 

Note (04/10/2025 2100 CDT) - On going to the Google development mode, I see that there is a new button ("Vibe") which I have been reading about. Sometimes, I might add as it sounded like the usual affair of misdirected enthusiasm. Whatever is going on in the background with this problem will settle down. Then, I'll use this topic for a deeper look. In any case, running into a "tantrum" however invoked does not make for stable knowledge processing. 

Remarks: Modified: 04/11/2025

04/11/2025 (about 0500 CDT) -- Put in proxy of the expected image and a note to explain. Something related to "Who moved my cheese?" (when did that become normal?). 

04/11/2025 (0738 CDT) -- It's back, AI Overview. But, buried under a label. The only quibble is the use of intersection for a split. I dealt with precision in highly technical engineering support work (computational modeling). 

Kudos, somewhat. Let's talk.

Bosworth through the eyes of technology

TL;DR -- Bosworth? Know about it? This is where the Tudors came to be as the Plantagenets were cut out of the game (of Thrones). Well, only the male lineage. The female portions always live on. Recent abilities allow new insights into the 22 Aug 1485 event which is a mere 125 years from the colonial start (fuzzy numbers suffice). Abilities? GenAI as a mathematical marvel? Finally, we have a chance to look at the capability with the intent to tone down the hype that is missing the point of it all. 

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This post has two purposes. One deals with the latest rage of technology that is commonly known as AI (we will use GenAI). We have argued that the current phenomenal abilities of GenAI are not due to some critter which is "sentient" but that they represent long years of mathematical work culminating in a mode that is suitable to exercise by the circuitry and software of computing. As such, this post will provide the start of a necessary bit of discussion. The second purpose is to point to recent work that uses GenAI and that represents an opportunity to look at the good, the bad, and the ugly. 

Let's start with the announcement of genealogical/historical research results. We link to two posts (05/10/2025 - missing URLs removed - search at King Slayer's Court). 

• 1 - Updated Press Release: A 540-Year Conspiracy Unveiled – The Lost Ledgers of Bosworth Rewrite History (Bedtime story; Lost Ledgers; Untold story) 
• 2 - Untold Story: The Death of Richard the III (pdf), By Sir Wyllyam Gardynyr  

The first post looks at decades of research that started from hearing family stories. The topic deals with the Battle of Bosworth where King Richard III was killed. As a reminder, research determined the spot where his remains were placed after the Battle. In 2012, after much research with respect to location, they dug through the surface of a parking lot and found the body. Subsequent analysis indicated that the remains were of the King. 

Too, his skull had been fractured. The tales of the family involved the details of how a member (yoeman - commoner) struck the blow. That has been scoffed at over the centuries and over the decades that David T. Gardner did his queries. 

The second post takes informaton provided by GenAI based upon sources that finally were digitized and pulls them into a narrative as if written by Wyllyam Gardynyr. As we do our analysis, we will help sort the various attempts at presentation into a scheme where veracity is measured and reported. That is, as with most things, we see the tip of the iceberg. That itself will become clear with GenAI as we proceed in a mature manner. 

We first heard from David in 2014 as a comment to our post, Historical Genealogy. That post was from November of 2010 when we had first started doing research. David's comment was in 2014. We noticed and responded in 2016. At that time, we started to correspond and did this post: King Slayer's Court. We started to look at David's work and published a few of his articles. Per usual, he was bumping up against official opinions. Through digging, he kept finding information pointed to his family's tales being right. 

So, let's switch to technology. We have had lots of posts on GenAI. There many of examples of GenAI that are available. Opinions about this phenomenon of the past two years (first released to public use in November of 2022) vary with sides drawn. It has good and bad properties. On the good side, it resonates with people but is thought to lead them astray. But, the best part is that the underlying mathematics is worthy of our attention as it represents what can be done. 

Needless to say, these open issues will continue to be on the radar for several reasons that we have tried to address. But, getting back to David's work, he had made progress hearing from groups like the Richard III Society and from experts dealing with the history of Westminster. But, recently, a GenAI was tried which had digitized sources from the time period and location. 

On honing in via queries (some say, prompts), David pulled out documents that confirmed what he had been looking for. Ostensibly, we will add and explain below. 

In the meantime, David has written several articles that will be released over the few days and weeks. These deal in detail with Bosworth, but there is additional detail that deals with the Gardner family and the unknown dynamics of this Battle that was the last one of the War of the Roses. So, this is significant both for the history of England as well as for the opportunity to look closely at GenAI from a perspective that is serious. 

Genealogy is not an easy study in terms of trying to prove lineage of a person. The U.S.A. will see the 250th this year of activities related to its start. This month, in fact, was when the Battles of Lexington and Concord happened in Massachusetts between English troops and the supposed rabble rousers of the colonials. We have had many posts on that theme: Two houses, for example, looks at one family and their activity from the start (400 year vew) and during the revolution. One house is associated with the Society of Cincinnati whose members are males with direct descendany from a Revolutionary War Officer. There are many such organizations, such as the Daughters of the American Revolution. 

But, the Bosworth event was in the late 1400s which is three to four generations before the colonial effort took place. From a technology sense, this opportunity (for me) is priceless. For one, it shows technology allowing better document handling; then, there is the indexing and search facility that allows documents to be matched up; too, the prose generation abilities are nice. But, that brings up one huge focus which will be to scrutinize all of this and determine where things might have gone awry which puts an onus on creativity as this is an open field of study.  

Definitely, mathematics will be lifted to scrutiny in a manner not available before. How that will work is manifold in scope but overdue for attention. 

Let's use this post as a starting point: 22 Aug 1485. We'll end this post with an image (missing image from Chronical of England site run by Royal Central). 

Note: This activity on the part of our organization pertains to truth engineering. 

Remarks: Modified: 01/03/2026

04/04/2025 -- Press release disappeared; put in other links. 

05/10/2025 -- URLs disappeared at King Slayer's Court. Removed pointers. 

05/11/2025 -- New work starting; created a Bosworth label. 

05/27/2025 -- David T Gardner discovered that GenAI/LLM led him astray. We will let him tell the tale. Essentially, David's work over the decades has resulted in several documents that suggest more work needs to be done. But, the notions related to his theme of Gardynyr killing Richard III have some merit. That work will continue. The confabulations from technology are another matter that have our interest. 

10/29/2025 - Missing image (pointer for site not there; site gone) removed. 

01/03/2026 -- We will be updating the status of this work. For now, here are some posts: Welsh poems; Sir Christopher Gardiner; King Slayer's Court I; ... A new science?; ..., 

22 Aug 1485

There was a memorial ceremony at Bosworth. Richard III died 22 Aug 1485. 

FB: Richard III Society 
Websites: Richard III Society
Richard III Society - American Branch

The American Branch is open to membership by any interested party. 

This represents what the web/cloud can be. People organizing for various reasons. But, too, supporting research will be a regular activity. 

We have had several posts on this subject. Richard III and Gardner was a 2015 summary. In a 2019 post, we touched upon some of the history of the search for the remains of Ricard III. The writer, Philippa Langley, encouraged the researcher. As a reminder, the remains had been covered by a parking lot. 

In that same post, we mentioned our problem of determining what happened to the remains of Thomas after his Burial Ground had been diverted to commercial use without due respect for the prior burials. 

The internet will continue to scale down the world; at the same time, research will boom and scale things back up. The demands for proper handling of information will grow as will the means for doing so, using technology still mainly a dream. 

Remarks: Modified: 01/03/2026

10/01/2021 -- Changed image. Former one disappeared. 

05/11/2025 -- New work starting; created a Bosworth label. 

01/03/2026 -- We will be updating the status of this work. For now, here are some posts: Welsh poems; Sir Christopher Gardiner; King Slayer's Court I; ... A new science?; ..., 

All things Gardner

We haven't had a post on this theme that pulls thing together. So, this is it. We have used 'all things Gardner' since 2016. For now, let's just have a list of posts that refer to the concept which we will use as source for a review.

• Gardners and Gardners (Sep 2010) - Early on, we had queries about Gardner. In some cases, we helped people identify their families. In lots of cases, we pointed people to the most likely place to look for information. Say, tracking all of the Gardner references in the Mormon records. That is, those who did the trek by foot, say. Some took the loafing way around by boat, except one had to go through Central America, by one method. And, once to the west coast, there was the journey to Utah. Lots of other examples. 
• Historical genealogy (Nov 2010) - First look at some early stuff. Turns out that Richardson has looked at this, too. 
• Places (Nov 2014) - First place was Gardiner, Oregon. After that, several more. An open bit of research is to get several viewpoints documented. Then, we can see which might be more true than not. Interesting conundrum? 
• DNA and genealogy (May 2016) - We have had queries about DNA for a long time (we'll get the first of those references). Having a technology focus, we have been slowly diving in. Heavy in? Not really, until a bunch of questions are answered. Questions? Yes, we'll have those. In time. 
• Bosworth and more (May 2016) - This has the theme related to things in the old countries. Early on, we ran into stories. They are still being considered. 
• Gardiners Island (Jul 2016) - We have looked at places with the name. As well, we have looked at people with the name. A recent post? Gardner River. 
• Continuing work (Sep 2016) - MHGardner, as an example. We need to link in some recent material related to a house that he owned (had built - 1800s) that is being remodeled. 
• Privileged or not (Nov 2016) - Loyalists. We've barely scratched the surface here. 
• U.S. and us (Feb 2017) - We have several open research projects going. Our focus deals with the collateral issue, not just Gardner (and variations on that theme). One basic piece of the territory is Cape Ann and all matters related to that effort. BTW, we mention some of the names that are being studied. 
• Summaries (Nov 2018) - Like we're doing here. 
• ... we will have more ... 

... more edits on the way ...

We got news that a book on Gardners has been printed. It is Vol. 1; there will be two more.

• GARDNER Vol. I: Commandos and War Heroes details the history of the surname and contains 45 biographies on warriors, mercenaries, knights, commandos and war heroes with the last name, ranging from generals to fighter pilots to Navy SEALs with the last name Gardner. 

See: Amazon for more details. Looking for a review.

Remarks: Modified: 05/11/2025

04/17/2025 -- See King Slayer's Court, redux for an update. 

05/11/2025 -- New work starting; created a Bosworth label. 

Review of TGA, Vol. IV, No. 1

We had our first print of the TGA, last year, when we did Volumes I and II (in black and white) with the first three Volumes of Gardner's Beacon.

We are finalizing the latest issue of The Gardner Annals which will be Volume IV, Number 1. As soon as we are done with that, we will prepare to print Volumes III and IV of the TGA.   We will do the next printing in color. Too, if there is interest, we can reprint Vols I and II in color.

As a reminder, the following is the Table of Contents for TGA, Vol III. With TGA Vol III and Vol IV, we will include issues from Volumes IV through VII of Gardner's Beacon.

In Vol. IV, we carry forward two of the articles. "Thomas Gardner and the Tudors" is an extension of "Bosworth and Gardners" which is being done by David T. Gardner of the Pennsylvania family. Then, we look at the remainder of the volumes of The Massachusetts Magazine that was published by Dr. Frank and friends from 1908 to 1918. A new subject article looks at a correction made to The Essex Genealogist which led to several articles from Gardner Research. Finally, we briefly look at current research that will be published in future issues: a continuation of the "Flyover country" work about the lonely grave of a Mayflower descendant out west (who cares? when there is partying going on back in Plymouth?), then we take a look at the founders of The Atlantic which started in Boston, of course, we look further at the Magna Carta, and take some time to refresh what is known about Nathaniel Eaton which the proviso that we will get the record filled out further (he is an ancestor of Dr. Frank).

In terms of The Massachusetts Magazine, for which we will publish the Table of Contents the remaining issues, here are some particulars to be dealt with.

• Dr. Frank gathered old and new friends in order to do this publication. The old timers were from the era of the Civil War: Thomas Wentworth Higginson, F. B. Sanborn, and F. M. Thompson. Dr. Frank had an article in every one of the issues and did his pieces on those regiments at the Siege of Boston.  
• Dr. Frank's sister, Lucie, helped edit and contributed articles. Of note is that she picked up the work of Sidney Perley who retired. Then, she reported on the groups that were meeting, such as the Old Planters Society. 
• There were several other contributors. From reading these, we learned of Count Rumford, traversals out west (bleeding Kansas - Higginson and further west - F. M. Thompson). Too, we read of a friend of Ethan Allen who was here during the American Revolution (J. Hector St. John). And, we now know the Brit (R.A. Douglas-Lithgow, M.D. LLD) who wrote the History of Nantucket.    
• We pondered about the demise of the magazine which was popular. No doubt, the Spanish flu pandemic of 1918 was a factor.  

From looking at magazines of the time, we learned about the dialog (yes) related to various parts of U.S. history that ought to be known. And, we found out about the Lyceum movement of the early 1800s. The impact was seen even out in Kansas (1890s). We will take time to look at various attempts, such as the Spirit of '76 that was adopted by S.A.R. yet failed.

Gardner research interests are varied. One of these would be doing the first five or so generations for each of the children. Now, how to get that further along?

Remarks: Modified: 09/30/2018

06/18/2018 -- The Gardner Annals, Volume IV, Number 1,  published. Contents: The Massachusetts Magazine,  updating an article in the Essex Genealogist, Gardner and the Tudors, and Pending Research: Pseudo-wall, The Atlantic, Nathaniel Eaton. 

09/30/2018 -- The print version is at the printers.

Call for material

We are putting together the next print of The Gardner Annals. It will include Volumes III and IV and the remainder of the issues of Gardner's Beacon. This is the proposed Table of Contents.

There is still time to suggest an inclusion. Like? Something that you have written about your line. An overview of your relationship to Thomas Gardner of Salem. Any other pertinent topic? Notice that we included a guest article on 'Bosworth and Gardners' and 'Magna Carta' in TGA, Vol. III. 

We published Vols. I and II this fall. Next, we will have Vols. III and IV. Then, we expect to publish once a year given the material that is available. 

Lets us hear from you at publications@TGSoc.org. 

Remarks: Modified: 02/16/2018

02/16/2018 --

Gardner's Beacon, Vol. VI, No. 2

This issue of Gardner's Beacon briefly looks at research that will be reported in the next issue of The Gardner Annals (to be published, Dec 2016).

• In particular, there will be detail provided about Gardiner and the Battle at Bosworth. David T. Gardner will give us an overview of what he has discovered. This material relates to our interest in the whence issue.
• In Flyover Country, we follow families from Massachusetts and Virginia as they move west. In other words, this is an example of the pathways that were described in Albion's Seed. From a lonely grave site out west, we follow back the generations for the preceding 200 years to early New England (north and south). 
• The Massachusetts Magazine will be featured regularly. TMM was published by Dr. Frank and his sister, Lucie M. Gardner, whom we introduce. Lucie was a graduate of Tufts in 1897 and active in a lot of areas. She contributed to all of the issues of the TMM. This Gardner's Beacon issue provides the Table of Contents for Volumes I through V and discusses some of the articles. We also introduce R.A. Douglas-Lithgow, M.D., LL. D. who submitted several articles. This preeminent researcher and author came over here late in his life. He wrote the definitive history of Nantucket.  

Additionally, a guest writes in this issue about the Magna Carta and the celebration that occurred in the summer of 2015. Then, we start a series on DNA and its issues as they relate to general subjects such as what we know and admissibility of such.

---

See Vol. VI, No. 2 of Gardner's Beacon for a review of research to date.

Remarks: Modified: 03/01/2019

03/01/2019 -- We're building an index via images for our portal to truth.

King Slayer's Court

Context: Gardners and Gardners

In this context, last time, we looked at Gardiners Island which was owned by one of the many families that came over early. Dr. Frank had Lion Gardiner on his lists. He had more families in his 1933 book than he had in 1907.

Other families have been added. The list in the "Gardners and Gardners" post (see Context) is being updated. Of late, we have been working with a member of the Gardner family of Pennsylvania to organize and publish information that ought to help throw some light on origin issues, both particular and general.

The following is a summary of what "King Slayer's Court" is all about. The recent finding of the remains of Richard III allows another look at several subjects that deal with the Gardners of London. Our interests are several. There may be a tie that is awaiting discover, even if it is further back in time. Too, history has taken a stance in this matter that may not be correct.

I’ve heard stories about William Gardiner and the King since I was a child, I’ve been researching and reading about the subject ever since. These stories were passed by my family, descendants of English traders.. Many stories, music and traditions of early families passed generation to generation, made their way down the trail with the westward expansion of North America. The Welsh Tract of West Jersey. This area is now known as the city of Philadelphia. My ancestors English traders arrived in 1682. They were masonic masons, traders and merchants..

In the early days of the web, back in the 1990’s, I approached the subject of William Gardiner on Netscape and AOL. The “King Richard” protectors screamed preposterous all the way to Bosworth Market.

However, let’s look back in retrospect over the last 30 years and see how this story has progressed. My query has gone from completely preposterous to right on target. According to studies done when Richard III’s remains were found, in 2012, the last English King to be killed in battle fell by a blow to the head delivered by Wyllyam Gardynyr, a common skinner, with a poleaxe. “Hog Wash” of 30 years ago was confirmed to be true.

I find it interesting that the stories that families have passed generation to generation on the Welsh Tract of Pennsylvania (the tales of Lords, Ladies, Kings, Great Battles and better times in England) have ultimately stood the test of time. As we enter the digital age and the information of past generations is uploaded, it seems to be painting a picture that has been left unfinished for many generations.

We live in exciting times, my friends. Even a single forgotten document, just one seemingly unimportant piece of information now scanned to the internet~? Can (should) cause us to examine everything we think we thought we knew about our history. This is the story of King Slayer’s Court. I intend to publish what I have heard; then, we will go back and provided references so as to establish the proper story.

This following lists a few facts about William and Richard Gardner that we will address further.


• William Gardiner was indeed Knighted
  
• William Gardiner was married to Ellen Tudor
  
• William Gardiner was the brother of Alderman Richard Gardiner
  
• William Gardiner was the Father of the Thomas Gardiner "King's chaplain, son and heir, born in London say 1479”
  
• Richard Gardiner was controlling  what’s now considered one of the most lucrative trade syndicates on Earth.
  
• Richard Gardiner was in possession of RIII debt, Holding Crown Jewels as collateral.
  
• Richard Gardiner was official representative of City of London to greet Henry VII
  
• The Gardiner family has a long, yet still undocumented relationship with the Royal Family.
  
• Lord John Gardiner, Baron of Kimble is current Vice Chamberlain and Captain of Yeomen of the guard.

Several items of interest come from this overview that we can pursue. An example would be the differences between views: Wikipedia (Gardiner not mentioned) vs King's Slayer Court. History is more than what is written. Too, some viewpoints never get expressed.

Remarks: Modified: 05/10/2025

12/18/2016 -- Article about the subject published in The Gardner Annals, Vol. III, No. 1.

06/20/2018 -- This will publish with a new article soon. The book will include The Gardner Annals, Volumes III and IV plus Gardner's Beach, Volumes IV through VII.

10/10/2018 -- We just printed TGA Vols III and IV (available for purchase) which contains David T. Gardner's articles about the Gardners, Bosworth, and Tudors. As well, historical author, Douglas Richardson, has William Gardner in his books (Plantagenet Ancestry, Magna Carta Ancestry and Royal Ancestry) with his marriage to Helen Tudor (see Our Royal, Titled, Noble, and Commoner Ancestors & Cousins site).

05/10/2025 --  See King Slayer's Court, redux for recent information on activity. 

Bosworth and more

Context: New Science.

---

Earlier, we looked at the Richard III and Gardner. In our first year, we ran across the story of how the Tudors came to be. At that time, there were stories, even on Wikipedia. After some discussion (some seemingly vindictive), parts of the story were suppressed.

So, now, we will do a review. This is a start based upon recently acquired information.

This is a nice little site: Archeology Data Service. Let me quote one page: The Burgundian chronicler Jean Molinet chronicled the following  “Richard suffers an ignominious death, trying to flee from the field, at the hands of a Welshman armed with a halberd (therefore presumably a lower ranking soldier), whilst attempting to flee the field of battle.” See this report on Bosworth Military History.

This brief review is about a 1991 book that covers some of the Gardner connection. Looking at this Maryland family allowed me to get into other Gardner families. We will be updating the list (Gardners and Gardners - second most-read post). Also, I have had the chance to get familiar with the southern region (Disclosure: Spent over three years in the NOVA/MD region of DC. Unfortunately, I have not spent significant time in northern New England, yet.). Northerners, be aware that there were two "Paul Revere" types of ride in the south, namely Virginia and South Carolina.

Before leaving, I need to show the other side: Supposed daughters of an Earl.

Again, Gardner Research (DNA, et al) deals with all things Gardner. Help us present to most-supported material as well as make available all of the alternative bits of information. After all, the world is fuzzy (yeah, Zadeh).

Remarks: Modified: 06/11/2019

07/09/2016 -- On Richard III and Gardners.

07/10/2016 -- Mission of The Richard III Society. It is good to see 500 years back being studied. We wish to do similarly for Thomas and Margaret.

07/12/2016 -- We need to be like those doing Ichnology. Added context to front of post.

12/18/2016 -- Article about the subject published in The Gardner Annals, Vol. III, No. 1.

10/10/2018 -- We just printed TGA Vols III and IV (available for purchase) which contains David T. Gardner's articles about the Gardners, Bosworth, and Tudors. As well, historical author, Douglas Richardson, has William Gardner in his books (Plantagenet Ancestry, Magna Carta Ancestry and Royal Ancestry) with his marriage to Helen Tudor (see Our Royal, Titled, Noble, and Commoner Ancestors & Cousins site).

06/11/2019 -- As mentioned, I have heard from about all of the Gardner/Gardiner families who have pre-Revolutionary ancestors both in northern and southern New England. Several times, I was able to help them identify their migrating forebear. Beginner's luck? On WikiTree, there was a question about Richard Gardiner, born about the same time as Thomas of Salem, who came into Maryland. I have various notes about this family that I need to collect. The WikiTree question was: Who were Maryland Immigrant Richard Gardiner's (b1592) parents? Not sure who asked. The date of the question was 24 Jul 2018. It was about then that we were discussing Margaret Fryer, wife of Thomas of Salem. I left a comment. We don't know much about Thomas, either. Recently, there was an answer by William Good. His research notes (on the Gardiners) can be found at rootsweb[dot]com. Also, this pertains to several themes, including existing material (books, et al) some of which are referenced above, in the FYI context. Evidently, I'll need to put up a 'sorting out' category, at some point.

DNA and genealogy

Recently, Gardner Research was contacted with a DNA question. A researcher who had hit a brick wall over a decade ago decided to be subjected to DNA analysis. His results matched up with that of earlier kits that had been submitted.

Some of the results seemed to show relationships between various Gardner families. That is one of our interests. Details will follow at some point. Overall, there was quite a variety.

So, that was a sufficient trigger event to get us to start to look at DNA in terms of "all things Gardner." As we gather information, we will add to this list (year shown if not current). 

• International Society of Genetic Genealogy - chief promoters (their Y-DNA tools). 
• Genetic Genealogy Standards - limitations, use as proof, citing (love it). 
• DAR and DNA (2014) - Y-DNA (Guidelines) will not be considered as stand-alone proof of lineage because, while it can be used as a tool to point to a family, it cannot be used as absolute proof for an individual.
• ... we will get technical in order to discuss constraints to potential fad'ism ...
• The Human Story - National Geographic 
• FamilyTreeDNA and Gardner - project has been ongoing, for awhile. 
• AncestryDNA (2014) - discussion, thereof 
• Hiring a DNA Testing Company - Family Search org 
• Genealogical DNA tests - Familypedia 
• ...
• Eupedia - grand-scale, imaginative study
• FamilyTree magazine (2009) - on the subject 
• ... 
• A cautionary tale (2014) - Young and Savvy Genealogist  
• A junkie (2015) - comparing examples from four purveyors 
• Scottish believer (2008) - says it helps to break through brick walls 
• OPED article (2005) - from Foundation for East European Family History Studies   

  

  Caveat that needs more attention.
  These studies require serious augmentation
  in terms of additional data and of formation of hypotheses

• Can your DNA tell you your ancestry? (2015) - Skeptoid.com and discussion 
• ... 
• Most bang for the DNA buck (2014) - The Legal Genealogist 
• ...
• Human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup - Wikipedia. See further reading.  
• Dating settlements in Europe (2011) - Argues that J is older than R (discussion). There is a technical appendix that is thorough including description of algorithms (mostly Python). 
• An Accurate Genetic Clock (2015) - D.H. Hamilton, Univ Maryland (see Appendix for an overview of mathematical genetics). Abstract with tweets. Prof Hamilton and I share a common mathematical genealogy. 
• Computational phylogenetics - Including limitations and workarounds. 
• Computational Biology: Machine-Learning Approaches for Classifying ... (2008) - Early look at the issues of phylogenetic mapping (University of Arizona - yeah)   
• ...
• Genome Research (2002) - A Nomenclature System for the Tree of Human Y-Chromosomal Binary Haplogroups 
• ...
• Irish DNA - Shows that Brian Boru is not descendant of the Collas, plus a whole lot more. 
• ...
• Eugenics lurking - No discussion of DNA and the current mania/hysteria (similar to that of deep learning) would be complete without some notion that ethics is essential to our endeavors (greed, et al, notwithstanding). 
• ... 
• --------  below added in 2017 ----
• Blaine Bettinger - Now, we're getting somewhere: Below 10 cM, there is only a 59% probability of being shared by either or both parents. And below 7 cM, there is only a 40% probability of being shared by either or both parents.
• ISGG - Cousin statistics
• Paul Rakow - Counting cousins. 
• 23andMe (2012) - Cryptic Distant Relatives Are Common in Both Isolated and Cosmopolitan Genetic Samples 
• ...
• ...

We will also get links to all of the Gardner-related research done so far.

Note: For this list, we will move over to a DNA Project page (at some point).

Remarks: Modified: 06/04/2020

05/15/2016 -- Also, we got our attention directed to a lot of information about the Tudor relationship with the Gardners after Bosworth. We will summarize that and provide a bibliography.

05/17/2016 -- With Prof Hamilton's overview, our list covers the basis. He talks about using longitudinal studies within a family to assess change rates.

05/26/2016 -- While looking at the ancestry of the wife of William Marshal, I ran across a DNA study related to the ancient Irish clans. So, let's say, that motivates to get some DNA analysis going though the discussions of issues will continue in the background.

06/10/2016 -- Added link to Genome Research.

11/22/2016 -- A recent ACM Communications (Sex as algorithm) had an article by a gene specialist (biology) and a computational mathematicians. There is a little remark by the authors that things are not as clear as many seem to think. "Gene: A unit of heredity and a region of the DNA that encodes a functional product. It is thought that humans have more than 20,000 of these. However, now that coding is known to be far more complex than originally thought, it is no longer clear how to define these units and their boundaries."We will look at this further in the upcoming The Gardner Annals.

12/11/2016 -- Britons still live in Anglo-Saxon tribal kingdoms, Oxford University finds.

02/25/2017 -- Still at it. Adding in links.

06/04/2020 -- "Back to DNA II" looks at a WikiTree Project and more.

May 1st

This is the day that Nathaniel Hawthorne memorialized.

Incidentally, the supposed uncle, Rev. John White, trashed the people who where there. Too, he sort of implied that the Cape Ann crew were of that ilk (not that I'm judging ;-). But, we know better.

---

Whence issues need to be at the fore of things, as this page shows up.

   http://richard-iii-of-england.wikia.com/wiki/William_Gardner_(knight)

It is a copy of a now-deleted Wikipedia page that was copied to another site thereby cutting links related to updates.

You see why the web is a bloody mess? Notice the ads. The thing is to copy content and make money on eyes being lured there. Ah, how did this commerce ontology take precedence? Thanks, guys.

Remarks: Modified: 08/06/2016

05/14/2016 -- As we saw with the analysis related to Richard III's remains being identified and associated with descendants of his sister, modern technology does bring new things to the table. And, there were Welsh warriors present at Bosworth, some of whom may be Gardners. We have received access to additional material and will be presenting that story.

08/06/2016 -- More on All things Gardners.

Richard III and Gardner

Context: As time goes on and we get more information, this matter will be reviewed: Bosworth and more.

---

Before we get to the subject, let's do a review. King Richard III of England was reburied on March 26, 2015. His remains were found on September 5, 2012 after careful analysis suggested where to begin a search. Because of genealogical work that had been done in 2004 to find descendants of Richard's sister, a DNA test was possible which confirmed that the remains were, indeed, Richard's.

This discovery, as would be expected, raised a lot of interest. Who else was related to Richard and how? To descendants of early (and later) immigrants, this type of research means a lot since some of the early entrants did have a documented past. As well, claims of all sorts have appeared on the scene.

So, a moment like this allows a review of what is known and not. As well, we can take a re-look at methods and their findings (to wit, NEHGS on the subject which was posted at the TGS FB site). In the case of the Thomas Gardner descendants, times like this help with motivating, hopefully, the necessary work to collect and to catalog all that has been written.

Some of that work might be exploring the use of modern techniques. To boot, though, these times renew the hope that more substantive material will be forthcoming (to wit, the Thomas and Margaret marriage notice).

--- The question? Did a Gardner knock Richard III on the head?

Before early 2013, there was a page on Wikipedia with the title of "William Gardner (knight)." It told the story of William who killed Richard III and who later married Helen Tudor. Then, their son was Stephen Gardiner who was said to be an ancestor of the Thomas of the TGS, Inc.'s concern. That page was taken down in February 2013 (the delete vote and comments); the main criticism was that the story was of a conflated figure.

Along with the "William Gardner (knight)" page, there was a Wyllyam Gardynyr (get it? Welch-izing the name) who was the same person written up in a story. These pages were there for awhile as I first ran across them in 2010 (when first getting started with the "Thomas Gardner (planter)" page). With the discovery of the remains, though, the discussions quickened (see Richard III Talk page).

Now, notice the criticism. The story of Wyllyam Gardynyr quoted the Wikipedia (sheesh, all over you find sites that just pick up Wiki material - many times not attributing the source) page (referred to, above, as now deleted). That's nice. Write up an encyclopedia article, then quote it as a source.

Well, in essence, the (historic) evidence (as of now) is lacking that a Gardner ancestor of Thomas was at Bosworth Field or that a Gardner was the wielder of whatever caused the demise of the King. There was a comment made to the "Historical Genealogy" post (first written in November 2010) in the time frame of November of 2014 (fairly recent) that says that the story is, at least, 30 years old.

---

So, there is still a whole lot to look at, in this and in other regards; re-addressing this topic, and similar topics, is on the plate. In the interest of putting Gardner Research on firm ground, we intend to consider all that has been studied and written up to this point. Future generations and researchers will benefit. Our task is to do it right (or, at least, get the effort started on a good road).

Remarks: Modified: 04/04/2025

04/03/2015 -- The question "Did an ancestor of Thomas help in the demise of Richard III?" has been added to the FAQ.

04/04/2015 -- This is not to say that Thomas did not have ancestors at Bosworth or any of the other battles that occurred during the War of the Roses. We are talking the period from the period from 1455 to 1485 which is 100+ years prior to Thomas' birth. Here are two good graphics that summarize the period.

Wikipedia (War of the Roses) -- Summary of Events. Notice the Lancaster and York columns with battles and outcomes. Margaret of Anjou lost her son (Edward) and died in poverty. Others suffered fates (see beheaded list, section on England).

Threetwoone.org has a nice graph based upon the relationship tree with links for battles and fates.  

As well, here is a pinterest collection (put here as we could use this for material related to Thomas).

07/09/2016 - This year, we obtained further material.

10/10/2018 -- We just printed TGA Vols III and IV (available for purchase) which contains David T. Gardner's articles about the Gardners, Bosworth, and Tudors. As well, historical author, Douglas Richardson, has William Gardner in his books (Plantagenet Ancestry, Magna Carta Ancestry and Royal Ancestry) with his marriage to Helen Tudor (see Our Royal, Titled, Noble, and Commoner Ancestors & Cousins site).

03/14/2019 -- Put image into our index at our portal to truth.

04/04/2025 -- David T. Gardner has been exercisting Grok with prompts and reports finding documents that support his claim about Wyllym Gardynyr (see King Slayer Court blog). ... We have begun to incorporate changes into the structure and context of the blog. See Restart, somewhat. 

A new science?

Context: Richard and Bosworth

---

It occurred to me, as I was researching material related to Cape Ann and Thomas Gardner, that I ought to explain one of our interests. We can use genealogical forensics, as a loose example but a not weak analog (reminder - we are more than a few steps removed from fictionalized history - which, by the way, is a respectable field. How else can we get the movies, etc., out for popular consumption?).

Now, let's use the recent case related to Richard III (notwithstanding that some proposals have been found to be without merit) as it is an example of another type of forensics, namely anthropological. The image shows the results of a Google search on the subject of the reconstruction that was done from the remains that had been found and identified as belonging to King Richard III. By the way, The British Museum has an exhibit about this discovery.

The reconstruction looks a lot like what we saw with the portraits (see one of Wiki's image). So, one might consider that it (see the circled part in the image) was factor in the work. After all, how many Brits would not have Richard III imprinted on their psyche?

However, consider that similar efforts can be done with much fewer pieces. Too, as we know, a lot can be said about an individual from a small collection of data, sometimes (that being said, "big data" peoples, your aggregates of me, and many - most? - are way off base).

---

Before we go further, I need to point to the Forensic Genealogy Institute with whom I have no association. I am a private person, doing gentleman science - let's talk about that (in company of Faraday and a whole lot more). Disclosure: I am not a genealogist, historian, and a number of other things. What I do know are mathematical modeling (especially that which is computationally framed), many of the liberal arts and sciences (does that date me?), some military affairs, business/economics/finance, and a whole lot more. Actually, the best description would be autodidact who has broad interest. Too, I have known Gardners for almost half a century.

By the way, I have mentioned anceSTORY, before. The name has a lot of meanings. Yes, there are the dull details of the past. Too, there are those things that are known (and some were very clamorous - you see, people haven't changed much - I prefer Teddy's walk softly adage) and written about. Is that not history? But, then there is "being" (the larger story that is not captured by historical accounts - but, that is rectified now and again, see Joseph Hodgkins, as an example, albeit that McCullough could start with letters -- don't forget, though, that we can get to Heidegger, et al, to boot). That is what we're trying to capture.

---

Needless to say (but I will anyway), we must start with what we know. That means, in the real sense of science, what we have found out so far. In the case of Thomas Gardner (and Margaret), there does seem to be a whole lot of holes to fill in. Looking into expanding the base of knowledge is one task. I have only been at this four years, but I do not see evidence of any concerted, long term, effort to fill in the pieces (if I have missed something, let me know).

Too, though, would be to fill in pieces (using arguments of various strengths) as best we can using modern means. How effective this type of effort might be will become apparent as will its benefits as we go along.

Naturally, success will be best ensured if the brain is engaged during the exercises.

Moral: People were. That they (or information about them) might be acceptable to genealogists, or not, does not change the truths of their existence nor the reality of their continuing influence. Ought genealogists take lessons in how hubris is always just around the corner? As in, genealogy might help "flesh out" the truth; it does not define such.

Remarks:  Modified: 07/12/2016

03/03/2014 -- New science? Yes, bringing memes (and more) to the fore in the discussion. In the terms of Thomas, his progeny has a wide sweep, including the step-progeny. ... Of course, genealogy can apply to more than biologically framed lineage. For instance, mathematicians have their "ancestors," know about them (and their contributions), and honor them. What other field does that? My mathematical pedigree: Galileo Galilei (1585), Vincenzo Viviana (1642) Isaac Barrow (1652), Isaac Newton (1668), Roger Cotes (1706), Robert Smith (1715), Walter Taylor (1723), Steven Whisson (1742), Thomas Postlethwaite (1756), Thomas Jones (1782), Adam Sedgwick (1811), William Hopkins (1830), Arthur Cayley (1864), Andrew Russell Forsyth (1881),  Edmund Taylor Whittaker (1895), G.H. Hardy (), Edward Charles Titchmarsh (), Andrew P. Guinand (), Lucio Arteaga (1964), the blogger (). I took it back to 1585 since that would be co-temporal with Thomas and his parents. Too, note that the ancestor is an adviser or mentor or tutor. This brings to mind that a meme'tic look at descendancy would consider the influence of step-child-ness. I have found many of these relationships. For instance, for Thomas and Margaret, retired Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor is a step-descendant. Thomas Dudley has a slew of step-descendants as do many due to early deaths and re-marriage being so common.

03/24/2014 -- Read, recently, a review in the WSJ (Book Review, March 7, 2014) about the work of Anthony J. Martin, a paleontologist. There was much discussion about determining dinosaur look and behavior from minimal evidence. That is, even footprints can be used in lieu of bones. The key, of course, is being knowledgeable enough to extrapolate from the small set. Too, there is information in the limiting factors. ... We can similarly reconstruct a scene from the past, with care, so as to be able to look at it from our later advantage point.

04/25/2014 - Genealogy almost seems to say: without papers, you (and your ancestors) do not exist. We know that this is silly thinking (albeit, probably not recognized by those who do such). Attempts at extrapolation (like, what was over the pond for an ancestor prior to their departure) or interpolation (filling in missing pieces) ought to be given more credence; that is, such attempts are more than mere science fiction or fictional history. Why? Ichnology allows grand portraits from seemingly minimal amounts of stuff in hand. Of course, the discipline has known rules. Also, from time to time, something comes about that affords verification (and calibration). The same techniques could be applied to the ancestral realms (and has been, again, in the fictional form). So, that is something on our plate, discussion of such methods and of their use (with demonstrations).

08/19/2014 -- Put in links to the WSJ review of Martin's book (see 03/24/2014). Also, link to ichnology's use. Now, with regard to genealogy, biology, and sociology (etc.), we will be getting back to the discussion, in particular the interplay of memes and their analog.

10/13/2014 -- Tabula raza, and more, will be of concern.

07/12/2016 -- Added context at front of the page.